Nero's first (Hopefully last) runner was this morning!!

He normally sits at the front door and waits if I'm getting something from the car. He knows that unless he's wearing his leash and we are going for walkies he's not allowed outside. He waited as I went back and forth a couple of times but the 3rd time I went out, he took off around the front yard. I ignored him like usual because he usually goes right back in after I shout "Inside". BUT NOOOOOOOOOOooooooo he decides to do one down the frickin street. I'm still in my PJ's & Slipppers (typical hey). I quickly closed the doors and went after him. Not chasing mind you, just walking calmly. Everytime I approached, he'd take off again, until we got the storm drain area. We are talking water logged bushes, nettles, thorns, long grass, big spiders, nasty bugs etc etc!!!

He went in and out and in and out with me still in "Hot pursuit". Nero went a good 500m from the house, then a further 500m along this storm drain! When he got to the end I shat myself because it disappears underground and Nero was heading towards it. I tried the whole turn around and run the other way thing numerous time but he simply ignored me. THEN OFF HE WENT INTO THE FRICKIN TUNNEL!!!!

I climbed down (still in slippers) shouted a few times, found a couple of footy balls pretended it's play time, did my french haw hawww as though he's getting a treat. NOTHING WORKED! I had to go in after him. It wasnt until the tunnel was pitch black, and Nero got the the grated fence that he was finally trapped and I managed to snag him, probably some 30m into the tunnel!!

I carried his 15Kg, soggy, muddy, stinking ass all the way home, wearing soaking slippers n PJ's and went pyscho on him. He knew what he had done wrong because he sat exactly where I put him, without so much as flinching, for an hour before I let him get up.

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I have a question, which is going to raise a fair few eyebrows.

What punishment fits the crime?

As far as I'm concerned this is the worst crime he could commit (Besides biting the kids or something). I dont mind him destroying sh!t around the house or making a mess but when he takes off with no regard for anything he needs some form of punishment. I'm not saying that beating a dog is an appropriate punishment for menial crimes but at the end of the day this crime is SEVERE. & Please don't misunderstand, I didnt BEAT HIM, I held his scruff, shouted overly my usual yell and smacked him a few times on the bum.

One of my friend's trains Great Dane's, Show Winning Dogs. His punishment for SEVERE crimes is to grab the hind legs and hold them up in the air. Not dangling the dog or shaking him, but his back is supported on the ground and hind legs raised.

What sort of punishment do you guys dish out for crimes?

Some might have seen this on the other forum as it's proving to be a pretty 'hot' topic. Feel free to flame if you find it will help you express your feelingsor find it neccessary but it's not going to sway me either way as some replies are very predictable.

Also please bear in mind the story is not written out of frustration nor anger but jest which is why is has a comic delivery

If you still feel the urge to flame, feel free and have at it

Honestly? The best punishment I have ever had is ignoring them and isolating them. We've done what you have: the yelling and making him stay until we let him get up. We also lock him in another room (like the bathroom) for a while so he can't interact with us at all. Both can be effective, but you have to find what works best for Nero.

Yes, he was wrong for not coming when called, but the end of the day, you're the one that left the door open for him to run out of, so it's hard to punish the dog when you set him up to fail. Training isn't about trust, it's about setting your dog up to succeed, because they're animals. They are never going to be 100% trustworthy and you have a YOUNG pup. He hasn't even gotten to the point where he is going to rebel yet, so I think you need to start remembering to set him up to succeed more. That is the only way you build a trusting relationship with your dog.

I have no problems with appropriate forms of punishment. Just make sure you're punishing the right creature.

In situations like that my trainer suggested acting really happy and fun as soon as you get the dog, so they go "oh hey, maybe I didn't really need to run!" Then once they are rewarded for actually letting themselves get caught, then put them in a crate and ignore them for a while. Also it means your back to the drawing board and need to start training again. Get a long lead and clip it on him without him knowing. Then have him walk away or walk away yourself and before he hits the end of the line call him and give him a good treat for coming. If he doesn't come back pull him in and say OOPS! and show him the treat and pretend to eat it yourself. He'll learn that OOPS! means he did something wrong and just missed out on a treat. Also you can get some friends and have them hide in the bushes and throw empty water bottles at him if he doesn't come when called. And if you don't have someone to help you and he's off leash but you can easily catch him, grab him (make sure not to miss!) and give him a few good pounds on the side (not too hard, but firm and harder than you would do just for fun) and say "I said come!"

Great responses guys, just wish the other forum was of the same calibre.

I know animals are not 100% trust worthy, that's why they are animals (more on that subject later) but the principles behind such training should be instilled no? Why else would you train a dog to do simple things such as sit.

Sarah, are you not then praising your dog that it's ok for him to run away? I would have thought it would have the opposite desired effect.

It's such a difficult situation, and I understand your frustration. I have often struggled with the same thing.

Sarah is right in that you want to mark and praise the return. So, if Nero came back to you on his own, mark with "Good boy Nero, good come!" But then immediately put him on a leash and bring him inside and isolate him for a little while without you.

There needs to be a combination of both. You don't want to yell at your dog for running away because you want to make him feel comfortable and excited to return. The last thing you want is for him to refuse to return because he is scared. However, you do want to mark the bad behavior.

That's why it's so important, like I said before, to set your dog up to succeed because the positive associations when he IS good will make the punishment stick more when he misbehaves. So always make sure that after you come inside from a good training session, he gets LOTS of praise and thing that he enjoys. This way, if he slips up, his "punishment" or isolation is that much more marked.

I hope that makes sense. The bottom line is that many trainers will suggest different things. There's no black or white answer because there are many sides to the story. You just have to go with what works for you and your dog.

When I get some time later, I'll try to go full detail on how this happened.

I saw that when it was first posted, nice work

The number 1 reason I'm hearing is that it's my own fault he ran out, because I left the door ajar. Why the he'll is it so WRONG to teach my dog not to run out if the door is open?

If by that principle I would have been dead a loooong time ago, coming to a gruesome and bloody demise at the jaws of big cats or apes, because it's 'in their blood'.

I don't think I know it all, nor do I want to. Learning is a part of life. So just because I want to train my dog differently to others makes me a bad guy?


Edit: wrong forum

LOL. I'm sorry that another forum is making you feel so defensive!

But just to comment on that: it's not wrong to want to teach your dog to stay at an open door. However, at such a young and before the rebellious teenage years, I do think it's unrealistic to expect consistent behavior and results.

Mine will "Stay" or "Wait" on command... but I can't guarantee that behavior if I squirrel or rabbit jetted across the yard. For times when an open door is NEEDED and they cannot be confined, yes, it's good to have those manners, but in a situation that you can control because you have the time and ability to (like leashing your dog if you're moving and need to keep the door open) I think that's more appropriate. Again... setting them up to succeed and only testing those limits in controlled situations or when absolutely necessary. I think that is the important lesson.

Does that make sense?

Guys, I totally understand everybody's opinion, BUT my dog knows the word STAY and GO when i tell her to. Now, like Koda said, and mind you Mya is 4 and 1/2 years old, if something distracts her she WILL RUN. It's not that she's being disobedient on purpose...it's just unfortunately in their nature. I never give her the option to run, but i feel 80% better knowing that if i leave the door open by mistake she will listen to me. Huskies aren't normal dogs...they're known as the "escape artists" so realistically, in my opinion, you can never trust them 100%! Trained, not trained, it CAN happen. It's better to avoid the situation then try to test them. Don't get me wrong I would love to be able to let her run free and know that she won't run, but i've learned my lesson after chasing her several times in her younger years. Luckily, she's friendly and stopped to say HI to a random stranger and they grabbed her for me.

I don't think that praising a dog when you catch them rewards them in any way for taking off in the first place. Positive reinforcement can work wonders with any dog, I think that any more intense options for keeping a dog in should be reserved for a dog who absolutely in no way can be trusted. And with dogs who have rewarded their own behavior with running off it will be a little harder, especially with that pesky mysterious sewer drain;) but in all seriousness, I do not leave room for errors, I can't afford to, literally... And when Ecko would run off I was always so scared she would eat the little neighbor dog if it was out on a leash, she was very hard to keep confined if she did not want to be. I know Icon wouldn't be slavering for a small dog if he got loose, but I have lived my life very happily without giving him the option, not learning the behavior makes it very easy to counter condition;) I have found the easiest way to train a recall on my Icon was to potty him on his 50 ft long line, and when he was done doing his business I would pick up his line and call for him, if he did not come right away I would pull him in my direction until he got the point and praise him heavily with top shelf cookies;) after a while you can be reasonably sure that the recall will call him off of wondering, but maybe not a stronger stimulus like a squirrel or another dog... But any tool would be better than crawling in that nastiness I would think. And using potty breaks is great because you need that repetition and when else are you out on a semi regular basis with your dog when you aren't doing anything else? I hope that helps;)