abuanw wrote:

:::++ you know why I visited your thread? its because I have a female just finished stud session and I'm researching ways to better take care of her even I already experienced breeding with my Maltese. .

Yeah... this right here proves you are not ready to breed. The fact that you already had a stud session and are researching ways to care AFTERWARDS instead of being fully prepared.... typical Back Yard Breeder.

Knowing how mating works physically is COMPLETELY different from knowing how to BREED! Understanding the complexities of breeding, preventing genetic disorders, making sure pups go to good homes, weeding out poor disposition by strategic breeding, etc. Those are what make you a BREEDER instead of an irresponsible, uneducated everyday Joe that just wants to see cute puppies and then sell them to anyone with the money.

I LOVE my dog, I'm getting another from a responsible breeder, both female, and I will NEVER breed them because I have no business doing that. I would much rather spend a little bit more to make sure I am supporting someone who truly appreciates the breed and their dogs than someone who thinks producing puppies is a side hobby that a kindergartener could do.

As much as I love my Rogue, I would NOT ever breed him (in fact he was neutered at 6 months) because I know he is NOT breeding stock. He is beautiful and smart and as a parent I think he is the best dog in the world but it would be irresponsible of me to breed him just because I think those things.

I live in Arizona and it is next to impossible to find a reputable breeder out here, and I want more than anything to have another husky as part of our family. But because of our location I will have to consider alternatives and one of them will be Rescue. I encourage anyone that can to consider this alternative - it is a great way to show your love of the breed and to save a life all in one. I know it is not the answer for everyone, but if you have the time, patience, and knowledge of the breed it is something you should consider before breeding MORE pups that might end up in a shelter because the owners you sell to just see them as "cute" and don't understand what they are getting.

I was just out with Link on our morning walk to the coffeeshop where we go hang out before our jog in the park.  When we approached the door these two young folks (mid 20s) starting going nuts when they saw him.  As we walked in this was the conversation, nearly verbatim, that started before the door even closed:

Them: Oh my god your dog is so beautiful.  I love...is it a male or female?

Me: Male.  Thank you.

--He is gorgeous.  We have a female who looks just like him only she is way bigger.  

--Awesome, they're pretty great aren't they.

--Hey is there any way we could get your contact info so we can talk about them?

--Uhh, why, what do you want to talk about?

--We want to breed our female and your male is perfect.

--Oh, haha, no thanks.

--Is he fixed?

--Yes, he is.

--Well that's too bad because he looks exactly like what we are looking for.  

--Why do you want to breed her?

--Because she's our baby and we really want puppies.  Husky puppies are so cute!  We already have 19 people who want one of her puppies now all we need is the right male.

--Haha, well no arguments about the puppies, they are cute.  But has she been health tested?  Do you know her backgroud?

--Oh yeah she has all of her shots.

--No I mean genetic tests for hereditary diseases like cataracts and hip displaysia.  At the very least you should do this, it might not be such a great idea to breed her because you could be passing those along to the puppies and the families you sell them to.

--Oh she doesn't have any of those, she's almost 2 and she's perfect.  

--Well she could still develop them and pass them along to her puppies.  I strongly recommend you get her checked out.  Ask your vet to set you up with hip and eye testing.  

--Ok, whatever.  

Then they left.  

This was the first time I have ever been solicited for Link's stud service and it happened so fast I was kinda thrown off.  

I am glad I got the basic point across though without getting too preachy or condescending.

It was the first time in person the issue of breeding has come up and I was so thankful for my active involvement in this forum.  I got right to it and didn't express any support for the breeding whatsoever.  

It did make me realize that the primary motivation for most people wanting to breed their dog is emotional in nature, likely an extension of the basic feeling that "I love my dog" or "I love puppies."

It hit me that combating this motivation with a very rational, technical perspective about breed standards, conformation, genetic possibilities, and breed integrity is going to be a very difficult battle to win.  

It's too often the case that an emotional motivation is not going to be derailed by rational, technical information.  

I didn't feel that great leaving that conversation because I felt that my effort fell on deaf ears.  

Oh well, just gotta keep on trying to make a difference any chance we get.

Yeah I think that is the most common motivation/justification for your average joe wanting to breed their dog. They love them and can't imagine there could ever be another husky like her, or her temperament is so great they just have to have one of her puppies.

I wondered that too.... "my dog is so unique and wonderful."

I've never thought that about Link nor do I think it's true so I can't really relate, but I get it. But again, you can't combat that with "you're dog really isn't that unique or wonderful you just love her, which is great because you should and I love my dog too, but that's not a reason to make puppies."

Jeff, I don't think you could have said any more or said what you did any better to get your point across. Unfortunately some people just can't be helped, and usually, as you said, they're driven by emotional "reasoning." Sometimes the facts just don't speak for themselves when someone is so emotionally motivated. But, hopefully that planted a seed and they may rethink the idea of breeding their dog.

Thanks Liz. I just hope the idea of doing a bit of research hit home.

I love the irony of actually having a male myself who is in all liklihood breed-worthy (neutering aside) and I'm the one taking this position.

I think you did that eloquently.

I try to be nice but sometimes I come off as a bit brash when people tell me things like this.

I always tell people that if they love their dog so much spend their energy loving their dog, not making it procreate. Even if their dog doesn't have hip displaysia or eye problems that doesn't mean that their family tree has it in them...and the family tree of the other dog too. It takes more than two healthy dogs to make sure you have the best odds of having all healthy pups.

In retrospect I'm glad I took the genetic disease approach rather than the more abstract breed conformation approach, which I think is still super important but would hit home a lot less.

seattlesibe wrote:

I love the irony of actually having a male myself who is in all liklihood breed-worthy (neutering aside) and I'm the one taking this position.

Link may not have been breed worthy... It depends on if the ball dropped or not. But other than that, he totally is!

I wonder why some people get so offended when you tell them what a responsible breeder should do? Lol, it always amuses me with some peoples responses.

Noted and agreed. Thanks buddy.

I live in a more rural part of Auburn...which might explain why so many un-educated people have approached me about breeding Chuck, I've just said no thanks.

Jeff I think your points were pretty much perfect - next time I'm approached I will try to politely raise some of those points. You did better than I did, I wasn't ready to articulate any of that, and certainly not in a thoughtful, constructive way.

I think tone is a big . I get frustrated even on this site about some emotional responses I get - but then I remember the otherwise phenomenal advice I get on here One can raise ideas and issues about dog ownership without being adversarial and accusatory and I think you've demonstrated that well.

I want to be a breeder to make some money and as a hobby. It would be a fun experience. Been researching it for a few years. . .

I want to breed clownfish and seahorses. Animals that they otherwise take from the ocean to sell to aquarium trade and assuming I can raise babies they are saving lives. My last four 4 legged friends have all been rescued from shelters/rescues and all are fixed. If people care to breed who are not in it for the betterment of the breed, this may be a option for them. No one makes a bunch of money but it helps the environment and a little on the electric bills.

Thanks Rob . I think that may be the first time in my life I've been accused of diplomacy, ha.

I met a woman today at the dog park who brought her two huskies, a black/white male and red/white female. Beautiful dogs. She was telling me how her female has lost all her litters.. One was extremely premature and the other died in the womb. She said it was so emotionally wrecking for her husband that she is getting her female fixed (she breeds her male with her friend's husky and they do fine, I guess). Definitely getting my girl fixed after she's 6 months. I couldn't imagine losing all those babies and possibly her own life. Of course we have to consider we would not have this awesome breed if "breeders" did not exist.

There is a huge difference between someone who is carelessly throwing two dogs of the same breed together to produce puppies and someone who carefully selects their dogs, health tests, knows their dogs are to the breed standard, and breeds ONLY to better the breed.

If they are breeding purely for monetary or selfish reasons, then they should not be breeding at all. Breeding should not be taken lightly and it is devastating to go through such things but in all honesty it's becoming too common practice and backyard breeders are overshadowing the reputable breeders that are out there.

When I first got Mochi I thought about breeding her a lot because I was so in love with her and the thought that one day she would leave me was unbearable. I wanted her to have puppies so that I would always have a piece of her with me.
My thoughts changed completely when she got her first period. She got so sick and I had to stay up with her all night. She was in pain and she couldn't get comfortable and she was irritable and it hurt me to see her like that. After she finished her period, I took her to get fixed.
I never wanted to see her in that kind of situation again. I don't like thinking that one day she'll leave me and I won't have her lineage with me anymore, but more than that, I hate the thought that I could end her life prematurely just so that she could have puppies that I probably wouldn't even want anymore after losing her.
I have a lot of respect for breeders, but I don't think breeding is for everyone.

Does anyone know where Jeff (seattlesibe) made it off to? I've wondered from time to time as I run across one of his older posts and then just checked, it's been almost a year since he's been on and when I went to visit his web site it tells me that it's not available. Jeff put so much work into doing what he wanted, it's a shame that he's not here. (( Okay, he and I didn't always agree, but it was always good to have his voice here even when we didn't ))