Hello, again, Friends.

Since we have a show female, and obviously wish to eventually breed...and please do not get into the "should you breed" discussion. We understand what we are doing here....

To help understand genetics, very complicated process...but....anyway, how long does it take to breed out faults you want to improve upon?

Thank you for your input and education.

Of course, I have no idea, but I'll be interested to follow this as well. Not sure if I ever want to breed or not, depends on how Dizzy grows up and shows, but I am fascinated by this topic.

I think it would be most beneficial to discuss such things with a good breeder who can mentor you throughout the process.

I am no breeder but I would imagine that it would depend on the fault, the severity of the fault, as well as the other dog that it is bred with that will determine how long it takes to breed out/correct a fault. I highly doubt there is a simple, cut and dry answer to your question.

Yeah...its not really that easy.

I can say it does depend on the fault. I've heard rears are the easiest while fronts are the worst to try and correct.

Other then that...you have to do things in moderation. You can't take one extreme and breed it to the opposite extreme hoping to get an in between. Some faults can be fixed in the next generation while others could take a few/several.

Niraya wrote:

I can say it does depend on the fault. I've heard rears are the easiest while fronts are the worst to try and correct.

The Labrador folks say the same thing about fronts and rears. Also that heads are hit or miss unless it's very well established in the line. The basic structure is made up of polygenic traits, which makes it much trickier. I know breeders (labs, but the concept is the same) who have been at it for 30+ years who are still working on that elusive (and impossible to get) perfect dog, knowing they never will. I also want to add, that even the traits that are "easier" still take several generations to consistently eliminate from a line.

hmmm...interesting! We will for sure be seeing advice before we even think about breeding with our breeder and people we trust in the Sibe world. I was just thinking out loud!

Is Mishka co-owned by the breeder? I know breeders will do that sometimes, and that would be a great resource to look into as well since they should know their lines better than anybody else.

No, we own her outright. But we will consult our breeder. She's been great!

It really depends on the fault and the severity of the fault you are trying to correct and what you are using to correct the fault- some faults can be a quick in one breeding fix, others may be second or third generation corrections. The biggest thing you can do as a potential breed candidate, outside of the obvious prove your dog in showing/working and getting all health clearances, is be aware of your dogs faults and what it is you'd hope to fix in breeding your dog- researching and finding the right complimentary match to add positive attributes to your dog through the breeding. As a bitch owner you'll have to be discriminant and get familiar with stud dog contracts-

Also, when looking for a stud, really take a hard look at the lines he comes from and as many of his offspring as possible. For example, if you love his head, ask yourself is that look deeply ingrained in his lines, and do his offspring tend to inherit it? Try not to get too bedazzled over a top show record who everyone is flocking their bitches to. Obviously he should have proven himself as an exemplary dog. My personal preference is a dog that finished under breeder judges over all breed judges - but that's just me and my meager experience from long ago/different breed. Just because a dog wins multiple BIS, etc in shows doesn't mean he is perfect and will breed true. It means he is a very decent dog that was heavily campaigned with a good handler.

Lol aka his owner(s)/breeder(s) have a lot of money and backing.

Here is something I've wondered about that I hope is relevant to this topic. Say a dog hasn't finished, or done many shows, but there is a particular trait that you like about him. Would you consider incorporating him into your line? Or say on down the road, you have a dog from your line that has a particular trait that you like, but he doesn't do well in shows for whatever reason. Would you consider line breeding him/her to try and produce better offspring, and isolate that trait that you like?

wpskier222 wrote:

Here is something I've wondered about that I hope is relevant to this topic. Say a dog hasn't finished, or done many shows, but there is a particular trait that you like about him. Would you consider incorporating him into your line? Or say on down the road, you have a dog from your line that has a particular trait that you like, but he doesn't do well in shows for whatever reason. Would you consider line breeding him/her to try and produce better offspring, and isolate that trait that you like?

It depends on the dog, the lines he comes from, and why he didn't finish.

Here's my personal example (it's a lab, but the message is the same...)
I somehow managed to get first male pick for a litter from a very elusive and most highly regarded breeder. She had two boys in the litter that she thought should go to show homes. I chose the one with the better front and that beautiful head. The other, who had a much better rear, also went to a show home. Willie (my guy) did well - major points at a specialty show and on his way to finished. Then I went through a very nasty divorce, and had no funds to continue showing. Meanwhile, Aaron, his littermate went on to be VERY successful: AM PR BDA 1997 World BISS CH Tabatha's Rollick At Carrowby JH,CD,CGC,WC and was #1 lab in the US for three years and won many stud dog classes at specialty shows. I sometimes wonder what if I had chosen Aaron instead of Willie? He would still be the exact same dog with the same genes and ability to pass on those genes, but would not have had his CH.

Yes, exactly! Would you have bred him?

wpskier222 wrote:

Yes, exactly! Would you have bred him?

Willie? To the right bitch, absolutely. His mult- titled brother? Possibly not, because at that time I was fixated on fronts and heads - not that his were bad not by a long shot, but there were better ones out there.

I had a nice post typed out...and then my phone died.

IMO - There are many dogs out there that could contribute great things to the breed that aren't shown/titled or campaigned heavily and are not bred. On the other hand there are many shown/titled/campaigned dogs that I feel should not be bred.

A title does not (read: should not) make or break whether or not a dog should be bred. Does it help? Sure to an extent. But it should not be the deciding factor as to who you breed to.

I absolutely agree with that!

Something that has bothered me ever since I started learning about showing and conformation is the widely accepted mentality* that (basically) any dog that earns it's Ch. should be bred - simply because.

When a reality is that anyone with enough money can (and has) title a dog with the right handler under the right judge(s).

* = doesn't mean everyone subscribes to this notion or that even the majority believe this. And this isn't breed specific -I'm talking all breeds.

That is very true.

Well said, Ceara.

Thanks Sorry I went off on a little tangent :3 didn't mean to jack your thread!

Though the show world can have it's down sides, there are many points of merit that I feel have helped me as a Siberian owner and future breeder. I would still encourage people to get involved in showing anything they are considering breeding, especially if they are new to the breed in regards to determining breed quality. There are far too many people, novices and non-novices alike, that are so blind to their own dogs faults that sometimes a more unbiased eye is required. It's not always about the wrong end of the lead- or the size of your wallet.

I also do encourage people to get involved in a breed type activity with their dog. Prove functionality. But lets be real, the sledding world can be just as political as the show world just on the opposite end of extremes. Either forum you still do have to find your own way to some degree. But with watching dogs work, and putting hands on them in the show ring is how you learn what is appropriate, what works, what doesn't work, and so on.

I personally would rather have a dog that is well rounded enough to perform well not only in the show ring but in a working field as well, and still be able to pass all of their health clearances. That is a dog I'd consider over someone who feels they have a nice pet but doesn't perhaps have the money to show their dog.

Well said, Lani!

Duh huh, I thought all you had to do was get puppies so you could make all kinds of munny! yuk yuk. I really like to read about people who discuss breeding with thoughts of "what improvements can be made" not just "how much money can I make". With hope and luck breeding with a purpose will be the gateway to dogs with good eyes, good hips, and great temperaments. Thank-you to all who breed for the breed not for the bucks.